On Career & Marriage
(Caution: Long post. Not for the visually challenged or the-easily-bored kind)
I read Michael Noer's article with interest (thanks for link, Lola). Take a quick read. Quite interesting. And before I had time to write a response, Lucy Mangan of Guardian Newspaper beat me to it. So, read her counterattack on Noer's claims. Do read them if you have time to spare and do share your thoughts.
And referring to yesterday's post on how I do the most things during exam season, I decided to write my 2 cents' worth.
It just seems interesting to me how it really is back to a battle of the genders. Don't Marry Career Women is written by a male and of course, the outraged response is expectantly typed out by a female. I wonder if it would have made any difference if the counterarguments were written by a male instead; and even so, maybe his gender identity would have been questioned then.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Firstly. I am not going to entirely disagree. Maybe most men I know today may not want to marry a career woman after all.
Noer's definition of a "career girl"? One who "has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 (approx. RM108,000) a year".
Mangan defends women (not without emotion of course, since women are the more emotional ones...haha) by saying that Noer's idea of an ideal and marriagable woman "fits the stereotype of someone from the 1950s...and who never existed at all in fact". Perhaps, she is right. Noer made some really strong claims that women with established and well-paid careers "are more likely to fall out of love with their husbands, to be unfaithful, to have fewer children and to be unhappy about staying at home with said children...and even your house will be dirtier".
My only question is, even though many urban people have moved on with the demands of today's society and now, with degrees as a minimum and even attaining an MBA is slowly becoming quite a norm:
Have men really moved on in (with the change in societal dynamics) their expectations of women today? It seems to me that women nowadays are expected to study hard, then get a good job but be we are also told to be careful, because we mustn't outdo the men. You can be successful but not too successful - otherwise, men won't dare to go after you or won't want you at all. You would be too intimidating for them.
So where do we draw the line?
Ask yourselves, for most of us who are living in the city, how many females do we know of personally, who stopped at a high school qualification? There are surely a handful. But most of us would have to admit that majority of the women we know have at least a diploma or any qualification higher than that. Then again, most of us who have Internet access and read blogs are already part of the middle-class income (and above) strata.
Well, just to be safe from being accused of making sweeping generalizations, let me speak for myself ok? Just me and my perspective.
I've asked myself many times today why do I study so hard. 'Why do I need to attain a degree. Why do I even intend to go further than a mere degree?', I asked myself very honestly many times. At this point, let me say that one of the reasons I believe in education is mainly because I love learning. Truly. So yes, it's not necessary to attain so many certificates, but in today's society, there are the minimum requirements that we need to adhere to if we want to go further and if we don't have the necessary financial backing.
God knows how many good friends (with good intentions, of course) have told me to not "appear too strong" or "too successful". Otherwise, fastforward 10 years later, while everyone is busy carrying around their toddler children and being full-on Mister and Missus, I am still full-time single. I have been forewarned. Many times.
So what do I do?
Take heed of the red alerts? Or chase after what I believe are the dreams of my heart?
Well, first things first - take into consideration, my background and family circumstances. Since young, I have been taught that nothing in life comes easy. I would have to work for whatever I wanted to attain in life. And because money doesn't grow in my garden, I have been strictly monitored to not waste any of my parents' and brother's hard-earned cash.
And so, since young, I have been nurtured to perform to the best of my abilities. My family never told me that I couldn't do anything all because I was a girl. They never stopped me. Factor in my personal work philosophy (which is to put in 100% effort into striving for excellence), and you get the person that I am today.
Hence, it's no secret that I perform better than many males in my circle of acquaintances and sphere of influence. Not just academically, but also in the way I have picked up certain skills in life and mastered some of them. I say this not with pride for I am merely stating the facts. However, that hasn't stopped me from learning from the men, as well. So, I am what most would call a very independent and headstrong female. (And whatever other labels that have been attached to me.)
Do you think I am intentionally "strong" for the sake of outperforming the males? That I want to prove something? Honestly, no. Maybe when I was younger, I really wanted to prove that I had more muscles than my brother because he used to make fun of my flabby arms and tummy all the time. It was oh so, annoying. I wanted to build muscles so I could punch him back. Haha, kidding. But it was close to that.
That was then. What I'm trying to say is that I am who I am because of the way I've been raised. I am taught to believe in being responsible for certain things in my family and some of which, have built the "strength" into my character. Some of the things that I have had to do are merely because I have not had a "significant other" to help me out. Plus, other personal circumstances have drove me to take on certain roles (of which I obliged to undertake) from a very young age.
As for bits on character, I have often wondered how did I become so opinionated. A friend even advised me recently to "pretend" to agree with people initially (even if I don't), so that I don't come off as too "intimidating", and then when the right time comes, then maybe I can reveal my true opinions then. His point made me ask myself if I have been too eager to disagree with every other Tom, Dick or Harry. But I should think not. I'm only outspoken when it comes to matters of injustice, inequality, and especially when it comes to defending the weak and the helpless. So don't cross my path if you're a bully because I'll give you no peace, my friend.
And so, back to the career question. Should I continue to be a career woman and work full-on to reaching my personal full potential in life? I think the answer is yes. However, it is my true desire to settle down one day and start a family of my own. But whilst that is still a dim picture for now, I have to focus currently on building a life that would be financially independent one day. This doesn't mean that I don't need a man.
But should he never come into the picture, then I can still lead a life worth living. Pardon me, but I will not be guilty of being mediocre for the sake of appearing "more accessible", "more approachable", "more court-able" (if I may use the word), etc. Don't get me wrong. I am not undermining the greatness of a housewife (a.k.a. domestic engineer, homemaker, minister of home affairs, watchamightcallit, etc.), just that, if you have other things in life to do first, then I believe it is only fair to do them. Again, depending on individual desires and needs.
If a man won't have me because of my academic & career achievements in the future, I am afraid that it is his loss. That's 'coz on my part, I am not living a life of regrets. Excuse me, but I am living as a 21st century woman.
My sincere question is then, where are all the real men who are living as 21st century men? We need you.
I read Michael Noer's article with interest (thanks for link, Lola). Take a quick read. Quite interesting. And before I had time to write a response, Lucy Mangan of Guardian Newspaper beat me to it. So, read her counterattack on Noer's claims. Do read them if you have time to spare and do share your thoughts.
And referring to yesterday's post on how I do the most things during exam season, I decided to write my 2 cents' worth.
It just seems interesting to me how it really is back to a battle of the genders. Don't Marry Career Women is written by a male and of course, the outraged response is expectantly typed out by a female. I wonder if it would have made any difference if the counterarguments were written by a male instead; and even so, maybe his gender identity would have been questioned then.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Firstly. I am not going to entirely disagree. Maybe most men I know today may not want to marry a career woman after all.
Noer's definition of a "career girl"? One who "has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 (approx. RM108,000) a year".
Mangan defends women (not without emotion of course, since women are the more emotional ones...haha) by saying that Noer's idea of an ideal and marriagable woman "fits the stereotype of someone from the 1950s...and who never existed at all in fact". Perhaps, she is right. Noer made some really strong claims that women with established and well-paid careers "are more likely to fall out of love with their husbands, to be unfaithful, to have fewer children and to be unhappy about staying at home with said children...and even your house will be dirtier".
My only question is, even though many urban people have moved on with the demands of today's society and now, with degrees as a minimum and even attaining an MBA is slowly becoming quite a norm:
Have men really moved on in (with the change in societal dynamics) their expectations of women today? It seems to me that women nowadays are expected to study hard, then get a good job but be we are also told to be careful, because we mustn't outdo the men. You can be successful but not too successful - otherwise, men won't dare to go after you or won't want you at all. You would be too intimidating for them.
So where do we draw the line?
Ask yourselves, for most of us who are living in the city, how many females do we know of personally, who stopped at a high school qualification? There are surely a handful. But most of us would have to admit that majority of the women we know have at least a diploma or any qualification higher than that. Then again, most of us who have Internet access and read blogs are already part of the middle-class income (and above) strata.
Well, just to be safe from being accused of making sweeping generalizations, let me speak for myself ok? Just me and my perspective.
I've asked myself many times today why do I study so hard. 'Why do I need to attain a degree. Why do I even intend to go further than a mere degree?', I asked myself very honestly many times. At this point, let me say that one of the reasons I believe in education is mainly because I love learning. Truly. So yes, it's not necessary to attain so many certificates, but in today's society, there are the minimum requirements that we need to adhere to if we want to go further and if we don't have the necessary financial backing.
God knows how many good friends (with good intentions, of course) have told me to not "appear too strong" or "too successful". Otherwise, fastforward 10 years later, while everyone is busy carrying around their toddler children and being full-on Mister and Missus, I am still full-time single. I have been forewarned. Many times.
So what do I do?
Take heed of the red alerts? Or chase after what I believe are the dreams of my heart?
Well, first things first - take into consideration, my background and family circumstances. Since young, I have been taught that nothing in life comes easy. I would have to work for whatever I wanted to attain in life. And because money doesn't grow in my garden, I have been strictly monitored to not waste any of my parents' and brother's hard-earned cash.
And so, since young, I have been nurtured to perform to the best of my abilities. My family never told me that I couldn't do anything all because I was a girl. They never stopped me. Factor in my personal work philosophy (which is to put in 100% effort into striving for excellence), and you get the person that I am today.
Hence, it's no secret that I perform better than many males in my circle of acquaintances and sphere of influence. Not just academically, but also in the way I have picked up certain skills in life and mastered some of them. I say this not with pride for I am merely stating the facts. However, that hasn't stopped me from learning from the men, as well. So, I am what most would call a very independent and headstrong female. (And whatever other labels that have been attached to me.)
Do you think I am intentionally "strong" for the sake of outperforming the males? That I want to prove something? Honestly, no. Maybe when I was younger, I really wanted to prove that I had more muscles than my brother because he used to make fun of my flabby arms and tummy all the time. It was oh so, annoying. I wanted to build muscles so I could punch him back. Haha, kidding. But it was close to that.
That was then. What I'm trying to say is that I am who I am because of the way I've been raised. I am taught to believe in being responsible for certain things in my family and some of which, have built the "strength" into my character. Some of the things that I have had to do are merely because I have not had a "significant other" to help me out. Plus, other personal circumstances have drove me to take on certain roles (of which I obliged to undertake) from a very young age.
As for bits on character, I have often wondered how did I become so opinionated. A friend even advised me recently to "pretend" to agree with people initially (even if I don't), so that I don't come off as too "intimidating", and then when the right time comes, then maybe I can reveal my true opinions then. His point made me ask myself if I have been too eager to disagree with every other Tom, Dick or Harry. But I should think not. I'm only outspoken when it comes to matters of injustice, inequality, and especially when it comes to defending the weak and the helpless. So don't cross my path if you're a bully because I'll give you no peace, my friend.
And so, back to the career question. Should I continue to be a career woman and work full-on to reaching my personal full potential in life? I think the answer is yes. However, it is my true desire to settle down one day and start a family of my own. But whilst that is still a dim picture for now, I have to focus currently on building a life that would be financially independent one day. This doesn't mean that I don't need a man.
But should he never come into the picture, then I can still lead a life worth living. Pardon me, but I will not be guilty of being mediocre for the sake of appearing "more accessible", "more approachable", "more court-able" (if I may use the word), etc. Don't get me wrong. I am not undermining the greatness of a housewife (a.k.a. domestic engineer, homemaker, minister of home affairs, watchamightcallit, etc.), just that, if you have other things in life to do first, then I believe it is only fair to do them. Again, depending on individual desires and needs.
If a man won't have me because of my academic & career achievements in the future, I am afraid that it is his loss. That's 'coz on my part, I am not living a life of regrets. Excuse me, but I am living as a 21st century woman.
My sincere question is then, where are all the real men who are living as 21st century men? We need you.
i have no issues on marrying a career woman.. why, that would be the best thing that would happen! i could retire early, stay back home, do my favorite past time... sleep! that would be bliss rite? i cant imagine which guy in the right mind can resist that?
How strange if anyone wouldn’t like that! Soo.. to all career minded babes out there… bring it onnnnnn!! ;)
Posted by
Astrorat |
9:48 PM
It intrigues me that modern woman like yourself are playing the finger pointing game with regard to career and marriage. Men are not restrictive. Most of us don't want to appear as control freaks determining what you should and should not do in life.
Personally, I don't want my other half to be incapable of supporting herself and being forced to stick to me and remain faithful just because she doesn't have a choice. Yes, that might be the norm "back then", but times have changed. In addition, an over-analytical woman is a great turnoff! Maybe its because of my personality disorder (aka weirdness), but I don't think we should worry what society thinks and perceive of who we are.
As for success, I'd be able to swallow my pride if my wife is the next Prime Minister of Malaysia! Realistically though, I'm cool if she's a doctor and I'm a primary school teacher. Only insecure men would feel any sort of discomfort. Then again, we must lay the ground rules in marriage regarding whose the boss of the house!
The studies about successful women more likely to cheat; that's just bull. Statistics can be manipulated to make you subscribe to an idea or motive of the organisation conducting and funding the studies.
Education is important, yupp.. but it shouldn't be a criteria in which we choose our other half. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't find the joy in saying, "My wife's got a doctorate in physics, biotechnology, medicine and aeronautics". To me, its the same effect as "My wife's a great housewife. She makes excellent tiramisu!" No pride lost.
Its good to see educated women in the workplace; even as your friends. There's a saying that goes along the lines of, "You cannot have too much money, or wisdom, or.. knowledge". There are many great arguments to support your academic endeavours as much as to shut you down completely. I see no harm in both. Just listent o your heart. Like you say, "individual desires and needs"..
I still feel that women should not analyse and compare too much and worry you'll hurt our feelings by pawning us. Just be yourself, and we'll come to you!
- Pip
Posted by
Anonymous |
10:40 PM
just want to tell you that we are really "click" on each other. this question come to me quite a long time, i even enroll for the course “ sex gender and identity” last semester who talks about all these issue related with men and women.
As you can see, women are getting better these days as compared to last few century (thank god we are not there). Maybe because women are getting better and man are still standing at their same place, it seem to me that nowadays women does not necessary need to get marry. And I always think that if you know that this relationship won’t stay long, I will rather end it faster and set myself free. if the marriage is a disaster for you, why you still choose it? This applies to both men and women I can say. But i think until now, we are still live in a male domineering society, just need some time to change the process.
Jia jia
Posted by
Anonymous |
11:05 PM
...If a man won't have me because of my academic & career achievements in the future, I am afraid that it is his loss. That's 'coz on my part, I am not living a life of regrets. Excuse me, but I am living as a 21st century woman...
you're damn sexy and i'm no lesbian =p
Posted by
Anonymous |
9:52 AM
very well written article serena!! echoes my sentiments exactly!! bravo!!!!! so proud of u ;)
only the best guys w dare to woo us..hahaha ;) and until then, we live our lives fully fulfilled ;)
-val-
Posted by
Anonymous |
10:40 AM
Same old motto of mine I would like to share with you...
Reach for your dream and let it be the strength that drive your life when things are low. Don't change yourself just to meet other's expectations but focus mainly on what is birth in your heart. Be the person you are inside.
I love you because you are the strong person inside and outside lol! Hehe!
Posted by
Cmate |
7:22 PM
career women?? i personally don't view this as a career issue at all. Neither would i categorize women (or people in general) into 'career women' or stay at home mums.
What happened to individuals (male and female alike) who have dreams, desires and aspirations and are using resources such as education, career opportunities etc to further the seeds of potential in them.
We ALL were created to do something. Be it homemakers, businessmen, artists, singers...
The question is not about whether we're marrying a certain type of person. And i think, who we are and what we do is not a means for us to be "classed" and "tagged" but is merely an indication of us using the gifts and talents that God has given us to the absolute maximum that we can.
At the end of the day, it's about living a life of no regrets. Discovering and acheiving the dreams in our hearts. And I would very much like that man (or woman, for you males out there) to appreciate and value me for being able to fully utilize the talents God has given me in whatever field I am planted in.
Posted by
Anonymous |
12:48 AM
I don't anything wrong with career women.
In fact I find women who are educated, smart, opinionated independent and ambitious incredibly attractive.
However it has been my general observation that women like these tend to be less feminine.
All I'm suggesting is a slight correlation. But then again maybe I'm asking for too much. Looking for a women with the above quealities who is also feminine, lady-like and who is still willing to submit to her husband would be like looking for the perfect women.
So forgive us our chauvinistic flaws and all as we forgive yours. Lol.
Posted by
Anonymous |
11:04 PM
sheenb: living a life of no regrets?
a little idealistic no? ;)
it's a nice idea that the world has sold..but unlikely.
serena: going by what paul said - if you can stand it, don't get married. now, that's simple enough.
which sorta correlates with what sheen said - of doing God's will.
all the way from waterloo,
sook
Posted by
Anonymous |
4:17 AM
I was just wondering, what are 21st century men? Metrosexual males and their knowledge of appearances? Overachieving, overpaid men with bank accounts the size of whales? People who are secured enough to accept another's superiority in certain things?
Posted by
Anonymous |
10:34 AM
darling sook,
a life of no regrets an idea the world has sold us? haha heavens no!
By George read your new testament woman.
"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race"...sound familiar?
Posted by
Anonymous |
6:24 PM
"Excuse me, but I am living as a 21st century woman.
My sincere question is then, where are all the real men who are living as 21st century men? We need you."
That already says a lot about where you stand. And I'm guessing that you ain't gonna budge.
There's really no conclusion to whatever debate that may arise out of this topic. Cos at the end of the day, both males and females will always be finding ways to justify their point of view.
But I do know that in a relationship, career or no career for both men or women, there will be sacrifices on both sides. Its part and parcel of being together.
And if neither side wants to compromise, nothing will ever work out.
Posted by
shungz |
1:01 AM
darling sheen,
shall we look at the definition of regret:
to feel sorrow or remorse for
the very fact that we have to repent implies that we do, to some extent, regret our actions.
paul constantly regrets the actions of others even - going by the synonym of regret - to deplore, lament, bewail, bemoan, mourn, sorrow and grieve (words that are in constant use in the Bible).
thus, i stand by my statement that the phrase "to live a life without regrets" is, imho, a statement from the world.
we are called to live a Godly life - and that's what i'll hold onto to. MY focus is not, to not sin and as such - to not have regrets, but rather, my focus is to fixed my eyes on the finishing line and run.
5 degrees of difference can mean alot.
take care
sook
Posted by
Anonymous |
1:48 AM
idiot girl! u got me there. ha ha! :) i meant regret at the end of my life lah...not looking back at past things i've done and stuff. :) before u say anything more i am going to shut u up with a BIG SMOTHERING HUG!!!! so there!!! :) kiss kiss
Posted by
Anonymous |
5:59 PM
;)
pax.
ok. here is the kiss back . *muax
:)
hope your studies are going well.
love you
sook
Posted by
Anonymous |
9:53 PM
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